Curse

mqstout · Apr 11, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

So instead of having to grind for XP and Gold to unlock all the skills, you'd have to grind for XP, Gold -and- Faction [via PvP]?

SilentAssassin · Apr 11, 2006, 08:43 PM // 20:43

and again ppl are complaining about something they don't really know.

I am sure it will all work just fine.

Badger2 · Apr 11, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

I don't know... think about how many skills you got for nothing or next to it that sit on the sidelines unused. What you'll see, likely, is people being more selective in their skill choices.

My ranger, for example, has Otyugh's Cry. Why, I ask you?! WHY?!

I agree but, atleast I didn't have to shell out gold for it only to find out it is worthless.

MSecorsky · Apr 11, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger2

I agree but, atleast I didn't have to shell out gold for it only to find out it is worthless.

I don't remember... was Otyugh's a reward? Pretty sure I paid for it. (Not the full plat, mind you...)

Also remember that your first handful of skills purchased are for less than the 1K. Be selective, an das your account grows so will your skill base.

Also... merge accounts, import gold from Prophecies.

ducktape · Apr 11, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

/me thinks you will be able to buy skills using luxon or kurzick faction, and that faction will be available doing quests...problem solved?

Man, I hope so. Unfortunately I seem to remember having to pay with gold and a skill point when I bought skills during the FPE. That's a good idea to offset the cost for people who don't have a substantial amount of gold though

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger2

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
I don't know... think about how many skills you got for nothing or next to it that sit on the sidelines unused. What you'll see, likely, is people being more selective in their skill choices.

My ranger, for example, has Otyugh's Cry. Why, I ask you?! WHY?!

I agree but, atleast I didn't have to shell out gold for it only to find out it is worthless.

Bingo. Imagine how much more pissed you'd be to buy a skill and have it suck, especially if the only way you could get just about any skill is to buy it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vusak

if you make it HARDER to get skills, you dont diversify choices, you just invent a new section in fansite lore that includes the 'necessary' skills to unlock for 'blah' purpose. ie. you motivate everyone to spend their skill pts on the proven skills rather than experimental ones, so everyone ends up with the same boring builds.

That's what I was thinking too. If you have to burn a skill point and up to 1k on each skill from now on, what incentive do you have to try different builds unless you have a lot of money and skill points and nothing better to do with them?

Thanks to everyone for bringing up so many valid points on the issue! I hope they are able to implement the skill acquisition in a way that does encourage variety in our skillbars. And I especially hope ANet is reading this since they only have 17 days left before release to implement any important changes like this

HawkofStorms · Apr 11, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentAssassin

and again ppl are complaining about something they don't really know.

I am sure it will all work just fine.

I completely agree. People, a.net is not retarded. They put a lot of thought into this game. I'm sure that everything will work out. Quit complaining about a game that isn't even out yet (and which you all know you are still going to buy anyway...)

ducktape · Apr 11, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

I completely agree. People, a.net is not retarded. They put a lot of thought into this game. I'm sure that everything will work out. Quit complaining about a game that isn't even out yet (and which you all know you are still going to buy anyway...)

It's not our fault that their official responses to Q&A have stated they are changing a core aspect of the game in a way that seems bad. They even said they are changing it to "encourage build variety" when it seems to encourage the opposite. So it's not like people are reacting to a rumor, this news comes from ANet and we are providing feedback and opinions in response to it. They have said "This is how it will be" and we are saying "hey we do (or do not like that)". With just over two weeks until the game is out, it's not like they're talking about things that might go into chapter 3 or things that we'll see in a few months, this is something that they have confirmed will be in the game when we get it in 17 days.

I think of it like the attribute point refunds system, it seemed like a good idea since you wouldn't have to completely delete your character to modify your attributes that you chose, but with community feedback they made the attribute point system even better and gave us the system we have now. It seems like they are intending to encourage variety but are instead going to cause inconveniences when there are better ways to change the skill acquisition system.

Vilaptca · Apr 11, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

I really can't say I care about this change. I mean, don't we already only buy certain skills? I certainly don't buy every new skill I come across...that'd be a huge waste of my money. You buy what you need to improve your build when you come across it, and then later when you have the money and want to finish up getting your skills, you'll come back an get it.

This changes nothing.

Just stop buying what you don't need. Its like the Storm Bow I bought last night...after modding it, it now has the same exact stats as my Gargash's Recurve Bow. Just only buy what you need to improve your build, and when you've got some extra moneys lying around and nothing to do, you can run around to skill trainers and buy skills you need, or go around capturing those last few elites.

I Will Avenge Me · Apr 11, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

This is going to suck, my PvE ranger has spent about 90 of 92 points, repeating those damn galen trask quests is going to drive me crazy, then when they tell the community there won't be any way to get new skills except buying, I was pissed, where's the logic in doing that??

Orbberius · Apr 11, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

This.... doesn't sound good. The only reason I did PvE for the 3rd and 4th time was to do the skills quests and get skillpoints.

Hopefully it's not as bad as I fear.

aspectacle · Apr 11, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

I do not like the way this change is sounding.

Mostly because of the loss of the variety of rewards for performing a quest - getting XP for a skill point or some faction is just boring - particularly later in the game. I like the interest of getting some skills or a weapon from doing a quest - in addition to the fact that it is much easier on your pile of gold and allows you to save skill points for the elites.

Perhaps if they want to add variety to builds they could have skill quests which have a pool of skills you could pick as the reward (although I suspect people will still end up running the same sort of builds as each other), or it looks at the skills you have on the character and randomly picks some you haven't got yet.

Thallandor · Apr 11, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Asumming skills in Factions are gonna be hard to get by quest in PvE is bascially gonna affect either: GWP toon moving to GWF to get faction skills, or Faction created toon starting out in Cantha playing the PvE from the beginning.(which i assume the former is what we are more concerned about or is in question).

What this translates bascially is that Anet telling old timers from GW:P to del our toons and make new ones in Cantha, or we better start farming gold and skill points to get the new skills in Cantha. So much for rewarding brand loyalty.

PvPer wont care that much at all since it wont be as hard for them to unlock those skills from the PvP component of the game w/o having to touch PvE at all. Perhaps with Factions, Anet is finally making the push to make their game more PvP focus even more obvious.

If it is gonna be applied universally to both ascended toons from GWP and new ones from GWF, its gonna create quite the unbalance that ANet is always sprouting against.

Its skill not time spent playing that matters the most? GG ANET GG.

Despite my tone in this or most of my Faction related post, i am pro Anet (otherwise i wont be here posting anyways) but merely concerned at the lack of clear concise information that fail to address players concerns and when new information are released, it seems more questions are raised from each of the answers we get...

Orbberius · Apr 11, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

PvPer wont care that much at all since it wont be as hard for them to unlock those skills from the PvP component of the game w/o having to touch PvE at all. Perhaps with Factions, Anet is finally making the push to make their game more PvP focus even more obvious.

Actually, it takes much longer to get skills in PvP than in PvE, at least in Prophecies, so PvPers do care.

Sagius Truthbarron · Apr 11, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

From what I understand, Anet wants to cut down on "cookie cutter" builds by making skills harder to acquire.

I think you got that wrong. People who played through GW Prophecies would only use skills that they got from quests. Those were pretty much all the skills that you could get before the Desert.

Now, though, you'll be able to aquire skills from the Skill Trainer and cap them earlier instead. Much like how we did in the PvE preview.

Goonter · Apr 11, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

If this really does suck like everyone thinks its going to then maybe they can look into my skill refund idea.
Basically you select a skill and give it to the skill trainer for one skill point. You lose 1k but at least you save some time on getting skill points for the skills you do want.

mqstout · Apr 11, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

It's still limited by which skills skill vendors sell, unless from the get-go all vendors sell all the skills.

I still resent that there's that skill trainer in the Ring of Fire that sells ALL the skills, eliminating at least three towns from being exploration destinations.

Thallandor · Apr 11, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbberius

Actually, it takes much longer to get skills in PvP than in PvE, at least in Prophesies, so PvPers do care.

.

I was refering to the situation where a PvP player from GWP would link Factions and import characters over and those players who have UAS in GW:P will still have faction left over and banked in to bring over to unlock those new skills they want for PvP asumming they also did so for both of the preview events.

The PvPer compared to the above PvE player, who has ascended toons in GW:P to import over to Faction and finding themselves having the need to spend countless plats and possiblity time (hours?) in specific missions having to cap some skill which isnt even an Elite, playing the PvE mission is bad enough in GW:P having some players who join parties quiting after they cap the Elite they want screwing over their teammates doing the mission by leaving. This is gonna be a even bigger problem in Factions if we are expected to cap normal skills apart from Elites from those mission.

Hope this clears the air abit about what i am talking about which in that sense would seem to provide PvPers easier access to the said skill than PvEers who have to cap that same skill for different toons if they need it for a build.

Edit for spelling

ubermancer · Apr 11, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

I think this is an AWESOME idea.

Ill get right to acquiring all the skills right as soon as I find that Ethereal Tyreal's Might Ive been looking for.

Silas Verdeii · Apr 12, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Well, as some people have said, we don't really know for sure how the game is going to look until we actually play it. That being said, i think it makes sense to have our voices heard when we don't like something. Anet keeps on saying that it checks fan boards often and therefore, if that are really doing things this way, and they see a bunch of their potential customers complaining about it, they might change it. we'll just have to see now won't we.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 12, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Lacking skills only promotes FOTM builds... Here's why:

If you went to HA with a build that was not included in the current FOTM, even it if were an ingenious new build that would soon impact the metagame, you simply will not find a non-guild group willing to accept you. Since generally, all PUG's run FOTM builds, you must make a FOTM build to join one. If you think Ranger Spike, Rainbow Spike, Euro Pressure, and cursed IWAY are only products of uncreativity and unskillfulness, you are mistaken.

Arena.Net is only forcing players into using the same builds as everyone else to have a chance of competing at all. If this is, as we have interpreted it: more grind, then the game has just fallen into oblivion.

If the grind is, of all things increased for Chapter 2, I can gaurantee I won't be suckered for Chapter 3 (even if the PvP remains amazing enough for me to slog through the grind, PvPers will leave beause of it, and no new ones will join.)

We can only hope this is some terrible mistake not on the behalf of A.Net.